22 replies to this topic

[jiff]

.............feeling in need of some low-speed practice, I trolled out this morning to a sun-drenched but un-populated local car park, to try out some manoevres, and hopefully, polish my anti-wobble strategies.

I was trying out some recently acquired gems of advice relating to low-speed techniques.........'back brake & clutch only'..........'2500 revs'....etc.......... all of which felt much more effective and stable....... then I started to address the effectiveness of my U-turn technique.

It all felt great, & was working just as well as I'd hoped................EXCEPT.............I can't seem to tighten my turn to anything less than a diameter of about 30 feet.
This seems pretty feeble to me............& I'd be interested to know how it compares with how y'all do............could it be down to my short arms ? !!!

.........so I guess y'all will be out there this afternoon with a tape measure, checking it out

...................Jiff

[celticbiker]

About 12 ft diameter regular, 9-10 ft ish really trying.

[JollyGiant]

Here's how you do it...
Linky Dinky Doo Doo Dah Dah

[Gobsheen]

About 12-ish feet sounds right........like you do for the bike test. Can't say I've ever been that confident at u-turns. Could probably do with some practice myself. If it helps, this what I remember from my test training.

- Look where you want the bike to go, not straight in front of the bike or at the kerb etc. So, you're looking right over your shoulder to start with, assuming to road is clear.
- I was taught to have the revs pretty high for the whole manoeuvre, about 3500-4000rpm. Felt like the bike was screaming for such a slow speed but he told me to just ignore it. That set the throttle in one position for the whole thing so you could forget about it. Then, get moving straight ahead with the clutch held well into the biting point. Again, hold the clutch there for the rest of the u-turn. Now, slow the bike back a bit with the rear brake and round you go. Only adjust the rear brake until you straighten up on the other side.
- You don't have to lean into the turn at all....just steer it.

Maybe you've tried that stuff before. A friend who took his test a few months after me was taught a completely different way......lower revs and adjust speed with the clutch, which sounds a lot more simple. I'd say we were both at pretty similar levels of riding ability. We showed each other how we were taught and my turns looked way more controlled and consistent.

Try this in your carpark..........................Video

Edited by Gobsheen, 10 April 2011 - 06:19 pm.

[ChrisG]

Not had a go on the 900 yet but I can hit the steering stops on the Mk1. It is well worth spending a bit of time practicing in a carpark like that, amazing what it can do for your low speed confidence.

[trevini]

Lock stops in both directions here.










Sometimes with my feet off the ground

[TonyDevil]

lockstop here too, but i will admit i consider plastics to be too expensive to worry what people think of feet out u-turns
its much easier on the mk1 than the 900 due to carbs v FI

[Nog]

lockstop here too, but i will admit i consider plastics to be too expensive to worry what people think of feet out u-turns

+1

Although if you want to look cooler, footdown, lock front brake, spin rear and slide back end round

[JollyGiant]

Lockstops here too but since they are T/Ace ones and awfully shite it easier to run the Exxon Valdez round in a bath with a Blue whale in one end!!!

Hence the holding front brake and revving it technique!!!!

[duibhce Kaelann]

the easiest way to do it:

- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- keep revs up (the rotation will help balance the bike) and constant
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- slow down using rear brake
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- speed up using clutch
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- Keep body as straight as possible and push the bike down away from you (like in picture below, this will make the turning circle smaller. Do not use this technique for high speed cornering)
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)

oh, and did I mention looking where you want to go is important?

http://pix.pixagogo.com/S5!!1S2Llq...gymkhana062.jpg

[crispy]

the easiest way to do it:

- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- keep revs up (the rotation will help balance the bike) and constant
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- slow down using rear brake
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- speed up using clutch
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- Keep body as straight as possible and push the bike down away from you (like in picture below, this will make the turning circle smaller. Do not use this technique for high speed cornering)
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)

oh, and did I mention looking where you want to go is important?

http://pix.pixagogo.com/S5!!1S2Llq...gymkhana062.jpg

Photo doesn't include a TDM so doesn't count....

[duibhce Kaelann]

Photo doesn't include a TDM so doesn't count....

sorry, no TDM's present yesterday. I do still have a KTM990 (very impressive style) and an XT660Z on offer

[ChrisG]

+1

Although if you want to look cooler, footdown, lock front brake, spin rear and slide back end round

Yeah bit I tend to not look that cool when asking bystanders to lift the bike off my leg

[jiff]

the easiest way to do it:

- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- keep revs up (the rotation will help balance the bike) and constant
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- slow down using rear brake
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- speed up using clutch
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)
- Keep body as straight as possible and push the bike down away from you (like in picture below, this will make the turning circle smaller. Do not use this technique for high speed cornering)
- look over your shoulder to where you want to go (as far as possible)

oh, and did I mention looking where you want to go is important?

http://pix.pixagogo.com/S5!!1S2Llq...gymkhana062.jpg

....................that looks helpfull.............but you don't mention, & the pic doesn't show, turning the bars, let alone full lock.....
presumably it doesn't all happen just by means of the 'body lean' alone ?

............(eager student)......Jiff

[SelinaXC]

Just keep going till you come across a roundabout

[duibhce Kaelann]

....................that looks helpfull.............but you don't mention, & the pic doesn't show, turning the bars, let alone full lock.....
presumably it doesn't all happen just by means of the 'body lean' alone ?

good remark

first of all: body lean does not steer the bike. This is a very persistent misconception amongst riders. Even after Keith Code' s demonstration on the No BS Bike. Counter-steering is the only thing powerful enough to make a motorcycle seriously deviate from its course.

So then why do racers hang off their bikes and why did I say to push the bike in the corner while keeping your body as upright as possible? That both sounds like steering with body lean doesn't it?
Not quite, both only serve to influence the bike's centre of gravity, albeit with totally different objectives.

Racers try to push the bike as upright as possible ensuring maximal ground clearance while maintaining the same centre of gravity. Using the push technique you try to use the sides of your tyres as much as possible. The sides have a smaller circumference, allowing for shorter turns. Keeping the body upright again ensures the centre of gravity remains the same as when the bike were more upright.

Thus ended today's lecture

[jiff]

"..................thus ended todays lecture" (duibhce Kaelann)

Oh , not quite my dear!
..........so are you saying that the steering effort is via counter steering, rather than 'direct use of the bars?

.........that is, if I want to U-turn to the right, I push the right-hand bar, not attempting full right-lock by pushing the left?
(whilst keeping my body upright)


.......Jiff

[Studley Ramrod]

.............feeling in need of some low-speed practice, I trolled out this morning to a sun-drenched but un-populated local car park, to try out some manoevres, and hopefully, polish my anti-wobble strategies.

I was trying out some recently acquired gems of advice relating to low-speed techniques.........'back brake & clutch only'..........'2500 revs'....etc.......... all of which felt much more effective and stable....... then I started to address the effectiveness of my U-turn technique.

It all felt great, & was working just as well as I'd hoped................EXCEPT.............I can't seem to tighten my turn to anything less than a diameter of about 30 feet.
This seems pretty feeble to me............& I'd be interested to know how it compares with how y'all do............could it be down to my short arms ? !!!

.........so I guess y'all will be out there this afternoon with a tape measure, checking it out

...................Jiff

How did you manage to pass yer bike test ? I never came across a 30ft wide road when I did my U-turn on any of me tests.
Failed my u-turn on me first test The road was/still is a tricky fecka tho ! uphill, double camber and very narrow
I also fixated on the kerb......yeah,no,yeah,no,yea,nonononooooooo....foot down=fail.

I seem to remember summat about the Aprilia RS250 not being suitable for taking a bike test on as the turning circle was bigger than the Apollo 8 launch pads' !

Oh yeah, if ya wanna reduce the width of the turning circle, do it at a slower speed

Edited by Studley Ramrod, 12 April 2011 - 11:06 am.

[duibhce Kaelann]

aaah, the good old counter steering conundrum

Make no mistake, counter steering is what you do on your bike day in day out. You do it naturally and it is what you have been doing since you first made a turn on a bicycle without the training wheels on. The counter steer input is what initiates your bike to make a turn.

Thé most intense way to experience this effect is to cross your arms: left hand on right grip, right hand on left grip and feel how you make the bike turn. Although I would not recommend this as it is very likely to end up in a full 90 degree lean angle
You can also experience it by riding with 1 hand. Find a large abandoned parking lot. Keep the right hand on the throttle, left hand of the handle bars. Start riding in a straight line and push the handlebar forward with your right hand, see where the bike goes.

I once saw a friend riding instructor illustrate this to a pupil by riding pillion, holding the elbows and the pushing on the elbows to steer the bike. I can still hear the girl screaming when he did the emergency swerve manoeuvre.

[Nog]

Just to be further pedantic , counter "steering" has nothing to do with the bike actually turning, its only a means of leaning the bike in preparation for a turn.

Pushing the bars the opposite way causes the bike to lean into the turn due to the gyroscopic nature of the front wheel - even leant over a bike will continue to go in a straight line unless the wheel is then turned the correct way to steer - this is done without even realising usually.

This also only happens at speed, why its being brought up for U turns is beyond me.