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Fast Idle Plunger Repair (TDM 900) [ie Cold Start ]


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#1 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:02 pm

For a little while the fast idle hadn't been working properly, so at long last I decided to do something about it. I hope the following will help others. Incidentally the fast idle unit can't be bought as a seperate unit, you can only buy it as part of the complete throttle body assembly, list price about 1300...yes thirteen hundred!!! unsure.gif


SYMPTOMS
Originally the symptom was one of no high idle on start up on a cold engine, making it difficult to start and keep running. After a service, and I can't remember the exact circumstances here...it was months ago...the symptoms chaged to having a fast idle at start up, but then remaining fast.


WHAT THE PROBLEM IS
The fast idle plunger is a little unit screwed onto the front of the throttle body. It has two pipes off the radiator which heat a wax stat. As the wax stat heats it expands, pushing a plunger side ways. This pushes against a slider arrangement (which is sprung loaded) and adjusts the throttle setting (independently to the twist throttle).

All of this is exposed to the elements and the water and spray tends to work into the plunger and seize it up. Hence it can get stuck in one position.


WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT
the repair is simple in theory. The fast idle assembly is held onto the throttle body by two screws. Remove these and remove the two radiator hoses and take it off the bike. The whole thing comes apart with two screws. Free it up, lubricate and replace on the bike. Easy eh!?


EXCEPT
Getting to the bugger!

1. Prop up the fuel tank. I've made myself a holder-upper. Consists of a bit of aluminium shower curtain rail, flattened either end. An 8mm hole drilled in either end at 400mm centres. Use the tank bolt and a nut bolt of suitable type and prop the tank up so... it's nice and secure and great for lots of those under tank jobs.

Picture 1


2. Once the tank is up you need to remove the air filter box. I didn't remove this altogether, I just disconnected the hoses, undid the jubilee clips on the air intakes, and the securing bolt at the very front, then lifted it to one side.

Picture 2


(you'll notice from the picture 1, that I placed a clean sandwich bag over the air inlets to the engine to keep any potential dirt/dropped screws etc out)


3. Now you can easily see the Fast Idle plunger. This is on the right hand side of the bike at the top of the throttle body (its the cleanest looking bit in the photo, at about "7pm").

Picture 3


Disconnect the two pipes, having something suitable to plug the ends (to save draining the coolant down)...BUT see below before you look for plugs. I ended up using a couple of 6.5mm twist drills (blunt end in, of course)

Picture 4


Now you will notice that you have just two screw to take out. Except...you will also notice that there is a radiator pipe in front of the screws. I got a ratchet with a 6.5mm socket and a screwdriver bit (philips), but it was far too tight to undo - I was beginning to damage the head. The only real way to get that out was confront it head on!

6. Drain down the coolant (don't bother with the plug screw on the water pump) just drain using the screw on the front of the cylinder block, this will get the coolant level low enough. Don't forget to catch the coolant in a clean container, ready to stick back in later.

7. Remove the offending pipe. Now wouldn't you think that would be easy. Two Jubilee clips and a bit of tug...but oh no! If you look here, you will see Mr Yamaha has carefully placed the jubilee clip facing downward, meaning no way to get a screw driver on it to undo. This was a careful shuffle with a small spanner...6mm (I think...I can't remember. sorry unsure.gif ), moving it 2 degrees at a time.

Picture 5


8. Remove all the bolts that hold the radiator (no need to disconnect the rad altogether - removing these bolts the rad can just be dropped enough)

9. Now you can get to the screws from the front - here's how I did it...

Picture 6



Picture 7



10. And finally off comes the fast idle assembly...

Picture 8



Undoing the two screws reveals the inside of the assembly.

Picture 9




and the offending part is this stainless steel pin. It was pretty solid, but lightly tapping it back and forth freed it up until I could push it out of the body (you need to take it out from the inside). This was then cleaned, and I used copperslip grease on the pin (I wondered whether it was genuinly road grome, or some electrolytic corrosion between the aluminium and the stainless that caused the partial seizure..??)

Picture 10


11. Sticking it all back together is pretty much the reverse of the above. I like to stick copperslip on everything as I replace to make next time easier. When you replace the radiator hoses, and bolt it all together, do remember to do up the jubilee clip otherwise coolant pisses out every where... blush.gif ...then you have to take the tank off again, and the air filter box ranting.gif

One other point was I found it difficult to get the air box located onto the throttle body air intakes. In the end I split the box took out the airfilter so I could guide the rubbers over the intakes - lot easier.



[Oh and if you haven't done the airbox mod yet...now's a great time to do it. There's another thread on this somewhere!]

Edited by E.T., 29 July 2007 - 01:50 pm.


#2 SteveGlover

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:28 pm

Excellent write up ET, and good photo's good.gif

#3 Hartside Man

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 09:39 pm

QUOTE(SteveGlover @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Excellent write up ET, and good photo's good.gif


+1 ditto this needs moved to the knowlegebase good.gif

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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#4 dapleb

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 10:44 pm

Is this a common 900 problem?
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#5 endo

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:19 pm

E.T.

You must have been in my garage taking pics when I did mine!!

I did mine the same way, even down to the extentions on the end of the bit driver


Well done for the write-up


Endo

#6 Hartside Man

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Posted 28 July 2007 - 11:45 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is this a common 900 problem?


Endo, E.T. , Hartside man ................. i can see a pattern forming here cool.gif

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have a Ghost S and i'm not afraid to use it !

A Beast in Orange Called KaTie eM 

"Four wheels move the body. Two wheels move the soul".

"So you just ride somewhere, eat cake and then ride back".


"Normal people believe that if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broken, it doesn't have enough features yet."

 

" I We're Ridin so Fast , I we're sucking Rabbits from the Hedges "   {Guy Martin}


#7 wicklamulla

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 01:57 am

gr8 write up ET. does it work now ??

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#8 Landy

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 07:56 am

Not as widely known as Copaslip but you can also get Alumslip which is as you may have already guessed aluminium based.
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#9 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:10 am

QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sun 29th Jul 2007, 12:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
gr8 write up ET. does it work now ??


Yep good.gif


QUOTE(Hartside Man @ Sat 28th Jul 2007, 08:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
+1 ditto this needs moved to the knowlegebase good.gif



Be my guest

JBX if you're reading, you're more than welcome to copy, plagerise, adapt etc for your site too.

#10 Mitch

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:21 am

Nice work John.

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#11 Yellowasp

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Posted 29 July 2007 - 09:35 pm

Cool stuff good.gif
Yellow Tdm 900 with lots of bits added

#12 dandywarhol

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Posted 05 August 2007 - 04:03 pm

Good writeup. Minty Hippo had a problem with his too.........

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#13 Minty Hippo

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 09:36 am

QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Sun 5th Aug 2007, 02:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good writeup. Minty Hippo had a problem with his too.........


Sorry, got to this thread a bit late. Yes I had the same prob - but not the wit to take the whole thing apart and do it properly. I hit it with a hammer and now it works. Nice work ET. smile.gif

#14 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 04:53 pm

QUOTE(Minty Hippo @ Thu 13th Sep 2007, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sorry, got to this thread a bit late. Yes I had the same prob - but not the wit to take the whole thing apart and do it properly. I hit it with a hammer and now it works. Nice work ET. smile.gif



The bigger the problem, the bigger the hammer! eh? cool.gif

#15 Sparky

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:07 pm

I did this repair today as mine had stuck somewhere between the normal and fast idle positions. Many thanks to ET for the original write-up. I thought I might add a couple of observations for anyone else needing to do this job in the future, as they make it a bit easier:

1) It is possible to remove the plunger and leave the thermostat in position, thus eliminating the need to interfere with the cooling system and move the radiator. I did this by using a #2 Philips screwdriver bit (the hex type that fits into a holder), held at a right angle by a pair of mole grips. This creates a powerful right angle screwdriver that will easily remove the mounting screws if used carefully. It is imperative that the bit is a Philips, not Pozi, and in perfect condition, otherwise you risk chewing the screw head. Once these are removed, the assembly can be moved downwards and the screws that clamp the plunger to the thermostat can be tackled using a normal screwdriver from under the frame. You may need to move the hose clamps along slightly as the screwdriver must go between the coolant pipes if you are to get it perfectly in line - which, again, is imperative.

2) In the immortal words of Mr Haynes: 'Refitting is a reversal of removal', but I would strongly, STRONGLY recommend that before you do this job, you buy some M5x40mm stainless cap screws (i.e. allen key head). I certainly would have, had I known the size. Cut them to the same length as the originals and use these for refitting. This way, if you ever need to do it again, it'll be removed in no time and with much greater ease.

3) Don't make the same mistake as me and tip your nice full fuel tank upright, leaving it to drip neat petrol all over the floor via the breather. istupid.gif If your tank is full, or indeed in any case, make sure you clamp the breather pipe.

Once again, acknowledgements to ET, and sorry if I've repeated anything mentioned in the original write-up. smile.gif

Edited by Sparky, 13 October 2007 - 11:28 pm.

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#16 Guest_E.T._*

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 06:11 am

QUOTE(Sparky @ Sat 13th Oct 2007, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
3) Don't make the same mistake as me and tip your nice full fuel tank upright, leaving it to drip neat petrol all over the floor via the breather. istupid.gif If your tank is full, or indeed in any case, make sure you clamp the breather pipe.


Further Tip...


Don't do this job if you smoke wink.gif


#17 Sparky

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Posted 14 October 2007 - 12:34 pm

QUOTE(E.T. @ Sun 14th Oct 2007, 06:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Further Tip...
Don't do this job if you smoke wink.gif


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#18 Guest_Catteeclan_*

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 03:18 pm

Hi all. Thought it was about time I joined here as I've had my 2004 TDM from new. Bit slow I know.

Just done said job to my 04 model.

Didn't bother taking the whole wax stat off. Just undone the 2 screws securing the it to the throttle body, then undoing the 2 screws holding the body together. So no need to bother with the water pipes etc.

Don't know if this has happened before to anyone though?
Been running rough as late so decided to check the valve clearences and balance the throttle bodys. All where fine so fitted some new plugs and reassembled only to find it was still not right. While it was still quite cool and ticking over I noticed C1 was popping from the exhaust. After checking the co settings I found C! = -128 and C2 = 18. I haven't done this so for some reason it's happened by itself.

Only thing I can think of is at this time of the year, (cold) the battery struggles to turn the engine over first thing in the morn. Could the ECU loose it's mem or get a spike as the power comes back in after starting?

Edited by Catteeclan, 13 December 2007 - 03:40 pm.


#19 dandywarhol

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 04:52 pm

Before I had the TPS mod mine would occasionally cut out and the clock/odometer would reset. The CO settings weren't affected though. Someone's been mucking about with yours - maybe to compensate for the fast idle problem?

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#20 Guest_Catteeclan_*

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Posted 13 December 2007 - 07:35 pm

QUOTE(dandywarhol @ Thu 13th Dec 2007, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Before I had the TPS mod mine would occasionally cut out and the clock/odometer would reset. The CO settings weren't affected though. Someone's been mucking about with yours - maybe to compensate for the fast idle problem?


Other than it's first service, Mine are the only hands to touch it as I do the maintenence myself.
I've read on here that someone else has had the other cylinder do the same but was put down to an air leak from the air box mod.

Tis very strange.



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