36 replies to this topic

[Mark2112]

Any recommendations for which engine oil works best 1996 850 ????

[celticbiker]

Dappers will be here in a minute.

[dapleb]

Oh no you dit ant !!

Ahem Jaso maaa JAso MAAa j ass000000ooO Ma. :-)

If you google "oils well that ends well, part 2" ewe will see why there is no definite answer to that question.

[davytdm]

just 10w 40 semi synthetic will do the job

[TYREDNGRUMPEE]

just 10w 40 semi synthetic will do the job

 

And if you are in the UK, the most economical / quality product would be the Halfords SEMI synthetic option, simply because it comes in at around £30 or less and there's 5 litres of it, rather than the silly 4 litre measures most others offer.

 

Bear in mind, that you'll be wanting a bit spare for top ups between changes.

Typically, I can end up using more than 4 litres on a oil + filter change anyway and would be fooked if I bought my oil in 4 litre measures.

 

I've used Halfords Motorcycle semi-synthetic 10W40 for six years without issues.

[muddy]

I heard Canola oil will reduce TDM cholesterol

[Mark2112]

Cheers for that trip to Halfords it is
Last bike was a 1978 Honda 750 (still got it but needs a lot of tlc) just used gtx in them days none of this synthetic stuff
God I feel old
Cheers for that trip to Halfords it is
Last bike was a 1978 Honda 750 (still got it but needs a lot of tlc) just used gtx in them days none of this synthetic stuff
God I feel old

[TYREDNGRUMPEE]

Cheers for that trip to Halfords it is

 

Just be aware that they keep two synthetic grades on the motorcycle shelf. Full and Semi.

It doesn't help that they're both in identical siver/grey bottles.

Make sure you grab the semi-synthetic option. It takes a while to identify the correct option because they can be mixed up together on the shelf.

I think fully-syn can be around £10 dearer.

[Apache]

Asda offloading good old castrol gtx 10/40 at £16 per 4 Ltr carton. Bought enough for a couple of years for a couple of mk2 850's. So quite a bit then. Been using it in every moto sickle I've owned since 1973. Never had any engine trouble and I do a lot of miles. There's a lot of bollocks talked about dedicated motorcycle oil. At the end of the day it has to be low technical quality due to wet clutch hence 4k oil changes (and gear mashing effect). GTX is currently API SL so over the top seeing as most sickles advise SF/SG. Service intervals have never altered since the 60's.

[JBX]

Bear in mind that "semi" synthetic oil actually means "one third" or (in the worst case) "one fourth" synthetic oil mixed with crap & cheap mineral oil I wouldn't even use to lube the drive chain or for my lawn-mower.

 

So better use semi-synthetic oil from good manufacturers, but even in this case it will see its properties decaying significantly faster than with full-synthetic oil. In this case it's better to shorten the oil change interval.

Edited by JBX, 26 November 2016 - 03:37 am.

[Apache]

Precisely the point I was making jbx. Motorcycle specific marketed oil is one almighty scam by manufacturers. It has to be poor technical quality hence short oil change intervals which have been the same since the 60's for everything from an air cooled 125 to a coolant cooled 1000cc sport. Waste of money buying the stuff pedalled as necessary for the wellbeing of your ride. Any good brand 10/40 will do.

[celticbiker]

I don't wish to cause an argument here and everything you say makes perfect sense,but I think it only right that the other side of the argument be heard.
While I agree that oil is oil is oil and if it lubricates a cheap one is just as good as an expensive one, I think that this only goes so far and depends on the application.
If you're talking about a 1980's Cortina them why would you out 60 quids worth of castrol edge in it when 20 quids worth of gtx will do the job.
There is no benefit in putting modern high tech oil in an engine that was designed to run on 20 year old oil technology.
While you might not think it, oil these days are designed at a molecular level and it's not always about lubricity but often about longevity.
Modern bike engines have much tighter tolerances and smaller oil ways, this puts a much higher sheer force on the oil and causes it to break down and thicken much quicker than an older engine would.
As an example, if you put gtx in a modern bike it might lubricate just as well as a bike specific oil but after 3000 miles it might have broken down enough to increase the amount of time it takes to get to the cams, this is clearly not ideal.
When I find it, I'll post a video of a practical test on different oils demonstrating the principal.
From a personal point of view I have taken my last for bikes well in excess of 100000 miles on bike specific oil and at valve clearance time the dealer has always said that the cams look like new.

Edit.
Here's the link
https://www.youtube....?ci=EiXYFvWbdrg

Edited by celticbiker, 26 November 2016 - 04:47 pm.

[dapleb]

Just read oils well that ends well ... Linked here by me many times. Read it, digest it and come to your own conclusions.

[celticbiker]

I agree with Dappers.
It's a bit wordy but well worth the read.

Edited by celticbiker, 26 November 2016 - 06:38 pm.

[Apache]

No argument celtic , just my opinion based on approx 500,000 miles over 8 bikes all owned from new and fed nothing but gtx. I've never had a single engine problem. Two I still own , a 78 z1000 showing 56k and a 97 4tx showing 99k (never had the cam cover off). My only s/hand bike being a recent bought 24k 4tx. The manufacturers can package oil as they please but they have to display the spec and it's basically 50 year old spec. It has to be. Forums are for sharing opinions and information. This one seems incredibly civil to me.

[Got1now]

Just to add my sixpenneth........I contacted these guys (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/) regarding oils for another vehicle I owned when I couldn't get a 'definitive' answer on a lubrication question (Ahem!!!)......they seemed very helpful, and will suggest oils for your bike/car/van/truck/speedboat.

Don't think you'll go wrong with the advice from any of the guys on the forum, but it's interesting to find what the 'professionals' suggest.

[celticbiker]

No argument celtic , just my opinion based on approx 500,000 miles over 8 bikes all owned from new and fed nothing but gtx. I've never had a single engine problem. Two I still own , a 78 z1000 showing 56k and a 97 4tx showing 99k (never had the cam cover off). My only s/hand bike being a recent bought 24k 4tx. The manufacturers can package oil as they please but they have to display the spec and it's basically 50 year old spec. It has to be. Forums are for sharing opinions and information. This one seems incredibly civil to me.

For a change it's nice to see the opinion of someone who has real world experience and hands on testing, rather than some oik who says he's "had sunflower oil in his bike for the past five years without any problems and he's done nearly 1000 miles".

Opinions from people such as yourself are always worth considering.

[James]

I've used all sorts of (motor/motorcycle) oil in my bikes over the years. I've stopped worrying about what brand, JASO spec, etc. because I usually change the oil and filter well before the service interval, whatever that is. Never had an oil related issue so farr. I'm currently using Halfords Semi Synth because it's conveniently available (I usually buy a few when they're on sale) but have bought through Opie's in the past too. Excellent advice and service.

Edited by Jim, 27 November 2016 - 09:45 am.

[fixitsan]

I agree with everything said about engine life/wear issues so far. I'm not sure I can agree that motorbike engines subject the oil to more sheer force than car engines, but there may be some evidence of that which I just haven't seen yet.

 

My only concern with using 'any available oil' is where clutch performance is concerned. Admittedly it was an old bike which I had clutch problems with, a Kawasaki kz550ltd, but with fully synthetic oil and 'super slippery' formula additives I got a lot of clutch slip. Ditched the oil for Castrol GTX and the problem went away. But even GTX is getting a few more additives these days.

 

Oil choice can also affect catalyst life too.

 

The FJ1100 and FJ1200 engine is renown for giving a long life, and in an FJ owners group I was a member of the recommended oil was the oil ressembling the most natural mineral oil, which for one guy who raced his bike was B&Q's finest 4-stroke lawnmower mineral oil (!)  and he raced that bike succesfully.

 

It needs to be remembered that the oil business, like all businesses, need to innovate to keep attracting new customers. Like the water industry, which makes a fortune from putting water of a lower quality than some tapwaters into bottles, and then selling it as a premium product (all legal and above board), then so the oil business also does the same.

 

Once you've extracted peak performance and made the ultimate performance claims about a product, where do you go from there ? Because once everybody has tried your product and found it to be about the same as other competitor's products it just becomes a price war after that. New products need to continually come along, and new ways of measuring performance have to come too which make the arguably small gains they bring seem to be critically important , and therefore worth paying a premium for..

 

 

 

It's all about the law of diminishing returns.....not wanting to get political, i think the oil performance improvement graph looks very similar to the CO2 effect graph....putting more 'stuff' into something stops becoming effective after a short while....

 

 CO2 impact.jpg   48.93KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

 

[JBX]

Lubrication is not about wasting time and money on "ultimate performance" oil, it's about avoiding spending more time and more money on low performance / cheap / crap oil (also known as mineral oil, mixed or not) because of the consequences it may have on your engine.

Edited by JBX, 27 November 2016 - 06:08 pm.