13 replies to this topic

[jpor]

Hi all,

 

TDM has been struggling since May with the clutch.

 

If the cable is adjusted when cold to spec (10mm free play at end), then by the time I get to East Smithfield, London, from my house in Medway, Kent, the biting point will be at the bar, and then it will go beyond this and creep forward increasingly fast until I have to be on both brakes holding throttle open to stop cut out which happens eventually anyway.

 

To stop myself from dying, I adjust the cable as I ride to mitigate some of these effects, but it is not possible for me to get to my office without clutch at full adjustment and even then the biting point is still back to the bar.

 

It makes for an involved ride, dangerous really, and best case scenario I am going to crash into a car while filtering because without playing with the biting point real time you have no idea where the biting point is going to be if it is even still there. I have been riding the worst bits of London daily for too long, and my slow speed control is quite skilled - the bike would otherwise be unrideable. I have stopped riding the bike as of November.

 

The cable adjustment is not moving on its own or with vibration causing this hallucination, it is certainly the biting point, and when it moves you can tell from a stand still because the lever goes all floppy with no resistance at all with excessive travel, but this is not a cable issue because you can see the cable at the gearbox is moving 1:1 with the lever, just the gearbox internals are providing no resistance.

 

This isn’t for the want of trying. I took it to my garage straight away when it happened and they said “yes we know what this is, you need a new clutch”. I was dubious at this because I would have expected the biting point to move further towards the extended not retracted end of the lever. I had no ideas myself and I couldn’t really find anyone except BMW owners complaining about this on the internet.

 

£600 later (this local independant garage is not cheap at all, but I use them because they usually do an okay job - with one serious brake incident a few years ago on a vfr1200 but let’s not get into that now) my bike was returned to me promising fixed. The very first journey it was obvious it was no different.

 

I wanted to trial getting the train to work anyway over summer as part of a larger plan to reduce stress so I rode to Ebbsfleet for a month and didn’t really suffer from the biting point issue because there was very little in the way of clutch work. I then rode my gsx1400 the following month to work because summer. September, back to school road chaos I decided to ride the TDM into work again. I’d forgotten how dangerous it was and I was genuinely shocked at myself for ever thinking this was acceptable to ride so I called up the garage as soon as I got to work and explained the problem. Again.

 

The mechanic (who genuinely is quite competent, former Yamaha mechanic and knows his stuff) was convinced the bike was overheating. While I completely understand why he thinks that, I assured him I know this bike better than one really should know something inanimate and it was not overheating. I’m sure fellow commuters understand that once you’ve spent a certain length of time riding a particular bike you just know it like you know yourself. Anyway he was convinced so I let him have a go. Again, I had no better ideas. £500 later he found a lazy thermostat, and it’s true it was slow to open as evidenced on video but I was never convinced this was the problem. It did open albeit slowly and remained open, I saw the test, and it would have opened way before I even hit the London traffic on my commute really, and stayed open the whole way. He assured me he’d ridden it and fixed it.

 

The first time I rode it, it was clear the problem remained. I phoned up again. The garage did not even offer to look at it again for free and they said I probably need a new radiator. It says more about me than them that I actually gave them my bike back. £500 later, a new radiator, ultra cold coolant (which is just making the bike run colder than it wants to and is probably not doing the bike or fuel economy many favours), the issue is as bad as it ever was.

 

The oil turns black pretty quickly each time they take it. The right oil is going in it, and the filter has been changed a few times.

 

I paid credit card, I could get my bank to charge back, I probably can’t be bothered. I won’t go back to that garage though, from an ethical perspective. Not checking the bike properly and giving it back to someone who’s clearly outlined the issue isn’t okay I don’t think. In the wrong situation, it could end quite badly.

What I do want to know, for my own morbid curiousity is what is wrong with my bike? I don’t know how to rationalise it.

 

Currently I drive to the train station daily, which is expensive sure but much safer and less stressful. The TDM is sulking in the rain waiting for me to care. If anyone has experienced similar please let me know, on another general biker's forum I am on the suggestion was clutch slave cylinder.

 

I don't have enough patience these days to take the bike apart at the weekend to investigate, so unless someone can say "this is for sure the issue, mine did the same, here is that part number" I would like to take this to a garage in the South East of England that can be trusted to do the job properly, and check their workings. Recommendations greatly appreciated as my garage is now struck off, they are the only one I've ever used, having done most things myself

 

Thanks in advance for any insights you might have

[trevini]

Might be a totally stupid question, but does the bike have the standard clutch lever fitted? 

[leehenty]

Check cable is totally free, popping the clutch cover off is easy on these bikes

Edited by leehenty, 01 January 2025 - 07:30 pm.

[chrisr]

Well it ain’t the clutch slave cylinder that’s for sure! Put a new Oem clutch cable on it, adjust it properly and as Trev says make sure it’s got an Oem clutch lever on . Also make sure the chain and the tick over are adjusted correctly. Although they don’t particularly like being driven in London traffic it should be better than you are describing. And don’t take it to a dealer, they will just steal your money!

[laughin in a windstorm]

my problem with the TDM clutch has always been the squeal it can sometimes make but I did a mod many years ago that helped with that,

you say 10mm of play which is a massive amount, my advice to you is to adjust the clutch free by turning the steering fully to each side when the engine is cold and see which side creates the 'least' free play at the lever, then in this position adjust the clutch so there is just enough movement of the lever to not activate the clutch itself, this can be 1mm because as long as there is free play when cold then all is ok,

in my opinion clutch plates swell up with heat and this is what causes the clutch lever to start the biting point closer to the handle bars,

I have tried after market clutch plates like EBC and they were terrible for this, now I stick with genuine manufacturer parts for items like clutch plates and oil seals,

I recently did a toy run on my bike and at the start of the run the clutch lever bite point was quite far out, by the end of the run which was very slow so lots of clutch use needed, the bite point was close to the bars but ok,

hydraulic clutch systems automatically take up the 'play' so usually the rider doesn't notice, I would definitely forget about the 10mm of free play !

[Catteeclan]

When I used to frequently ride to Manchester I could often feel the same thing but not as bad as you describe, clutch never dragging or running out of free play. I put it down to the engine swell/contract between hot and cold. Getting into Royton there'd often be some filtering but never unmanageable or dangerous.
I'd go for the recommended amount of free play at cold and see how you get on. 2-3mm?

[leehenty]

Make sure the engine oil is rated JASO MA or MA2. I changed my clutch to a Surflex kit including the plain plates, no more isssues.

Edited by leehenty, 02 January 2025 - 10:06 am.

[trevini]

Make sure the engine oil is rated JASO MA or MA2. I changed my clutch to a Surflex kit including the plain plates, no more isssues.

 

Have you got a link for that kit please Lee? I suspect mine might need a bit of work fairly soon as it's on 70k now.

[leehenty]

Trev, I do have a genuine clutch pack taken from a new 900 bike that we fitted a kit to. Ill dig it out.

[fixitsan]

My last 900 started to show signs of a wandering biting point after i fitted an uprated clutch plate and springs.

It was never catastrophic but a couple of times in heavy traffic I found I had to adjust the cable at the lever end in order to keep riding.

So it was either due to the plate, or perhaps something I did wrong when changing the clutch plate

I did a lot of clutch slipping deliberately to try to induce it, and wear the plates a bit and it became less of an issue over time, but I was always aware of it in traffic

Edited by fixitsan, 04 January 2025 - 11:42 am.

[thong]

had my clutch apart a couple of times, one thing I noticed is that there is hardly any oil in there, maybe its starved of oil/plates sticking together, is there anyway to increase oil flow to the clutch.

Also I fitted a fan over-ride switch on my handlebars, so as soon as I hit any traffic I turn the fan on, this stops the engine getting too hot/degrading the oil

[MArk2]

Ok here is my take on it I have had this on two 900s. Now on my 4th, both were moving at the bar end of the job the clutch perch has worn threads  it does not take  a lot of movement to cause problems. solution both times was to use max adjustment at the other end so as to thread the adjuster in more also think 10mm is far more free play than you need as long as you have any free play ie 2 or 3 mm its ok. Best Mark.

[jpor]

Thanks all, I really did want to give some of this a try this weekend but it was just too grim out 

 

I'll have a good go at adjusting gearbox side and then give myself a lot of room lever side. 

 

I am pretty sure that it is something inside the gearbox as I never see any signs of freeplay in the cable or routing; it pulls 1:1 lever to the gearbox but I'll give it another go at maxing out the adjustment. Where I had it in the summer I knew that from cold start at my house the biting point was absurd, but traffic house side is normally okay. When cold like that the biting point would be at the very end of the lever far away from the bar, but still by town back to creaping forward with the bar pulled in. My guess is that it will be much better in the colder months than the summer months. 

 

I've got a feeling if I can be bothered to take it apart I'll probably be rewarded with something that looks evidently blue and warped!

[fixitsan]

Thankfully a clutch swap is easy, and not too expensive