Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Engine overhaul


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 ChrisG

ChrisG

    Resident vulture

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,281 posts
  • Location:Netherlands
  • TDM model: 2009

Posted 18 March 2006 - 05:35 pm

In response to a comment on another thread, I thought I'd put up some detail of my rebuild.

Oil consumption on my 92 Mk1 was getting silly, an 1100 mile long weekend to Ireland got through 1.8 litres, and people were starting to comment on the amount of smoke it was producing under acceleration.

Prime suspect was the piston rings, and £35 to M&P for a compression tester (needed to unbolt the radiator and drop it foreward a bit to get enough access for the tester) showed over 1.5 bar increase in pressure when I bunged some oil down the barrels, a sure sign of ring problems I'm told.

Apart from the cam chain tensioner being behind a engine mounting bracket it's pretty easy to get the head off a Mk1. Exhaust, fuel tank, airbox, carbs, radiator and thermostat housing all need to come off first, then you can get the valve cover off. Turn the engine to TDC (the Mk1 is a 360 degree crank unlike the Mk2 which is 270), take out the cam chain tensioner and front guide, take off the cam sprockets and oil banjo bolt and the head unbolts and lifts off. After struggling to get the block off for 10 minutes, undo the coolant union on the front of the block and the head pops off easily. 2 circlips on the ends of the piston pins and the pistons pop off.

My pistons were filthy, but cleaned up nicely with some Mr Muscle oven cleaner and a toothbrush. The head and barrels I took down to a local bike shop who sent the barrels off to be honed, cleaned up the head, and leak tested all the valves. I also ordered all the new gaskets and o-rings from him. Took him a couple of weeks to get everything and the total cost was about £270 I think.

New piston rings went on easily enough but getting the head on (with 2 new o-rings and a new gasket) took a while with a mate helping, the bottom of the barrels is chamfered to make it easier but it's still a struggle, and the only piston ring compressors I could find didn't open fully so are only any use if you've disconnected the con rod from the crank rather than from the piston (I'm told this is the usual method in cars). Once the barrels were on, the head went on pretty easily with a new head gasket. Getting the cam sprockets on and lined up properly is a bit fiddly but not too bad. I got a new seal for the valve cover, but probably didn't need it, and found that you need to stick the seal to the cover with a few dabs of sealant or otherwise it falls off when you're getting the cover in to position. From there it's a fairly simple matter of refitting all the ancillary bits (getting the throttle cables on the carb is far from simple though)...then taking the valve cover back off when you find the cam chain front guide still sitting in a crate in your garage. I damaged an o-ring putting the coolant union back on the front of the block, so had to wait a week to get another one from Yam at the rather high price of £1.75 (nowhere near me seemed to stock sensible sized o-rings). New oil and filter, plus the o-rings in the filter housing (get the filter from Halfords, it comes with the large o-ring), and some coolant and it was pretty much done. My exhaust is a bit knackered and I needed some sealant on some of the joints, so I actually used a high temperature sealant instead of exhaust gaskets, mainly because I'd completely forgotten to order them and couldn't be bothered to wait another week.

So far I've only done about 50 miles, using cheap Halford own brand oil and keeping it to about 5000 rpm without too much hard acceleration. I intend to do an oil change before doing many more miles and then gradually start working the engine a bit harder for the next few hundred miles, but I'm moving house this week so it might be a while before I do this or use the bike much. It's worth checking the oil very regularly to begin with, it dropped very quickly in the first few miles, presumably a bit gets past the rings before they bed in and there's a lot of places in the engine for oil to go that it probably doesn't get to until the engine's running.

Total cost was probably around £350, something like £120 of that was the gaskets, and I could have saved some cash if I'd done the work on the head myself and found someone to hone the barrels rather than having the bike shop take a cut for sending them to someone else. Plus that included a few tools like the compression tester and a rubber mallet. In terms of the amount of time taken I reckon if I'd pulled my finger out I could have probably got it apart in a day and got it back together in another day, but because it's the first time I've done anything like that and I'm lazy and don't do weekend mornings in the garage in the middle of winter, it took more or a less a weekend to strip and another weekend to rebuild. Getting the head on and off is defintaly a 2 man job. I would class myself as reasonably technical but I'd never attempted any work like thisbefore. I learned loads, enjoyed doing it, and was suprised how easy it actually was.

Didn't intend this to be quite such a long essay, but hope it's of interest to someone. If you made it this far I've even included some pictures.

Pistons when they came out



And after cleaning


Head when it came off


Head after cleaning


Bike stripped down

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#2 SteveGlover

SteveGlover

    850 going for 900

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 857 posts
  • Location:Bolton. Lancs
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:03 pm

Nice job ChrisG
Looks like you had a lot of leakage past the rings looking at the colour of the piston.
Regarding running in - wasn't there a topic on the old forum about running in where you thrash the b*llocks off it for 50 miles or something?

#3 Guest_Emmett_*

Guest_Emmett_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:10 pm

Great read ChrisG, hope the run-in goes well for ya. biggrin.gif

#4 ChrisG

ChrisG

    Resident vulture

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,281 posts
  • Location:Netherlands
  • TDM model: 2009

Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:23 pm

QUOTE(SteveGlover @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice job ChrisG
Looks like you had a lot of leakage past the rings looking at the colour of the piston.
Regarding running in - wasn't there a topic on the old forum about running in where you thrash the b*llocks off it for 50 miles or something?


Yeah, the Motoman website reckons you give it as much accelleration and engine braking as you can to start with. I can see the principle behind it, and he seems to have a reasonable amount of evidence, but he is talking about race bikes that get stripped down regularly, and I don't know of anyone who'd tried his method so I chickened out and went for the gentle breakin method.

The only other vehicle I've ever broken in was a 6 litre straight 6 diesel tractor, and the manufacturers recomendation was go and do a weeks ploughing to put a really heavy load on it, which would seem to agree with the motoman

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#5 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,279 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 18 March 2006 - 06:51 pm

Great job Chris. Like you say, it ain't that difficult to do and is very rewarding when it fires back up!

Why did you think head was a 2 man job?

As for running in..........

Cheers
dapleb
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#6 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 18 March 2006 - 07:55 pm

thats brilliant Chris, tanks fer takin' the time to document and photograph the process. d'only thing is im shitting meself if and when i decide to do it !!! i was hoping to get away with spending £200 on the same job you have just done but it sounds like im being too optimistic !!!

spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#7 JBX

JBX

    full o shoite

  • RTT manager(RTT)
  • 2,206 posts
  • Location:South France
  • TDM model: 2002

Posted 18 March 2006 - 08:34 pm

Nice post ChrisG, good work !
I'm impressed by the before/after cleaning pics. wink.gif

top_640.png

 

 


#8 MrNice

MrNice

    discovering Carpe

  • Members
  • 17 posts
  • TDM model: 1996

Posted 18 March 2006 - 10:37 pm

Yeah nice one GhrisG, what a good feeling it is too when it works, eh?

#9 Guest_Emmett_*

Guest_Emmett_*
  • Guests

Posted 18 March 2006 - 11:27 pm

QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thats brilliant Chris, tanks fer takin' the time to document and photograph the process. d'only thing is im shitting meself if and when i decide to do it !!! i was hoping to get away with spending £200 on the same job you have just done but it sounds like im being too optimistic !!!


Best wait till after summer now Wicky, It'd be a shame to go through a bit o summer with no bike, it's short enough as it is. sad.gif

#10 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:06 am

QUOTE(Emmett @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Best wait till after summer now Wicky, It'd be a shame to go through a bit o summer with no bike, it's short enough as it is. sad.gif



well thats prob whats goin to hapen anyway tbh as i canna motivate meself to do it rolleyes.gif

spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#11 Guest_Emmett_*

Guest_Emmett_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:12 am

I know what ya mean, I got a fender extender and hand guards from kedo about 2 weeks ago fer the black tdm, I put on the hand guards, cause they're a nice clean job. but I cannae be bothered to put on the fender extender, my hands 'll get dirty. If I can't be bothered with that, I'd never even consider going into de motor.

#12 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:16 am

fender extenda is quicker to fit imo than the hand guards, 4 bolts out, tek it in doors and clean it up, drill the small holes (if ya decide the sticky stuff aint enuf) afix the above mentioned item....... mudguard back on.........jobs a turnip

spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#13 Guest_Emmett_*

Guest_Emmett_*
  • Guests

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:19 am

It's the cleanin it up that I've got a problem with, think I'll rivet it on though, I don't like the idea of self tappers that close to me tyre. unsure.gif

#14 wicklamulla

wicklamulla

    is it Jizzy Rascal time yet.....?

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,211 posts
  • Location:Parish of Cruwys (pronounced 'Cruise' just loike Tom) Morchard, Mid Devon.
  • TDM model: 1999

Posted 19 March 2006 - 11:26 am

QUOTE(Emmett @ Sun 19th Mar 2006, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's the cleanin it up that I've got a problem with, think I'll rivet it on though, I don't like the idea of self tappers that close to me tyre. unsure.gif



well don't do what some idiot i know did wub.gif and drill the holes small so as the tiny nuts and bolts were a very tight fit and after a ride out the vibes caused cracks to appear all around the holes, he removed said nuts and bolts and glued the feckin' thang in situ. holes and cracks (lol) look terrible now though..... ohmy.gif

spyball alarm/immob, bluespot brake calipers and Stainless hoses, Fournales air adjustable shock with Remote Resevoir, forks raised 10mm thru yokes, racetech linear fork springs in 15 wt oil, Kappa wingrack/luggage, heated grips, Kedo handguards, dual heat controller to power heated jacket liner and or pants!!, Stebel 136DB horn, K&N air filter, colour matched Baglux tank cover (magnetic tank bag modified to fit cover), osram +50% headloight bulbs, headlight protector,"NitramSpecial" parking loight, tail light indicators all running on LED's & incorporate "Lite Buddies", MK7 Scottoiler fitted, taller screen, 2-2 stainless steel CCC's, Devil stainless down pipes. MKI Renntec engine crash bars & sump guard.
engine changed july 2007 on a dyno run it made 79.1BHP / Torque 59.9Had a brief flirtation with a 1999 MKIIa but it blew an exaust valve on the M5 so was sold on to be repaired.

I loike tay and hang sangwiches !

www.kenhogantreeservices.co.uk

http://s33.photobuck...77/wickla/?sc=6



http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php

post-1-1150550733.gifpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#15 ChrisG

ChrisG

    Resident vulture

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,281 posts
  • Location:Netherlands
  • TDM model: 2009

Posted 19 March 2006 - 01:30 pm

QUOTE(dapleb @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why did you think head was a 2 man job?

I found it really needed 3 hands, and possibly a spare leg. You could (and presumably from your comment and other posts you have) do it with one person but it would probably involve keep running round the bike as I found it needed a good wiggle from both sides. Getting it back on without using piston ring compressors involve me feeding one piston in while my mate did the other one. On an Mk2 it's probably eaiser as the pistons aren't both together.


QUOTE(wicklamulla @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
thats brilliant Chris, tanks fer takin' the time to document and photograph the process. d'only thing is im shitting meself if and when i decide to do it !!! i was hoping to get away with spending £200 on the same job you have just done but it sounds like im being too optimistic !!!

I replaced the crank/barrel gasket, the head gasket and the valve cover seal, I could have got away with only the head gasket as the other 2 are reusable a few times and were in pretty good nick, but I figured for the sake of a few quid I may as well do it properly. I got genuine Yam o-rings which were way more than I'd have paid if I could get them from another source (I used to pay peanuts for o-rings from a manufacturer in Loughborough), and you can anneal and reuse copper washers but I got new ones. I also replaced the airbox rubbers 'cos they were knackered. I also spend £35 on the the compression tester, plus 2 oil filters and oil, and then there were a few other random trips to Halfords for things I'd forgotten. The bill from the bike shop for doing the head and getting the barrels honed was a fair bit, but I didn't fancy tackling the head myself, and I couldn't find anywhere local to do the honing for me, which would have been cheaper than sending it through the bike shop. I reckon if you shop around for the parts and do the head yourself you could shave a fair bit off the price.


QUOTE(Emmett @ Sun 19th Mar 2006, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
... but I cannae be bothered to put on the fender extender, my hands 'll get dirty. If I can't be bothered with that, I'd never even consider going into de motor.

Note the customs and excise gloves in the photos, makes the job so much more pleasant biggrin.gif


QUOTE(MrNice @ Sat 18th Mar 2006, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah nice one GhrisG, what a good feeling it is too when it works, eh?

Yeah, its a nice sense of achievement, as well as having saved me several hundred quid in labour. There is a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that it's going to goBANG though unsure.gif biggrin.gif

1992 Mk1, 76k miles, Hagon springs, MTC exhaust, 4½ gears Gone now :(
2009 900 abs, 42k miles, Yamaha heated grips, double bubble screen, R&G crash bungs, scottoiler, Autocom, 1500 lumen LED spotlights.

post-1-1152402501.jpgpost-1-1150550726.gifpost-1-1150559830.gif


#16 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,279 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 19 March 2006 - 02:39 pm

QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sun 19th Mar 2006, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I found it really needed 3 hands, and possibly a spare leg. You could (and presumably from your comment and other posts you have) do it with one person but it would probably involve keep running round the bike as I found it needed a good wiggle from both sides. Getting it back on without using piston ring compressors involve me feeding one piston in while my mate did the other one. On an Mk2 it's probably eaiser as the pistons aren't both together.


Ahh ok you were talkin about the barrels...yeah thats def the most fiddly part.....such delicate parts and lots of juggling to get it right.


QUOTE(ChrisG @ Sun 19th Mar 2006, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There is a nagging doubt in the back of my mind that it's going to goBANG though unsure.gif biggrin.gif


That'll pass as you get a few more miles on the clock.

Again great work and writeup Chris.

Cheers
dapleb

Edited by dapleb, 19 March 2006 - 02:41 pm.

"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.

#17 tdm850rider

tdm850rider

    Carpe Citizen

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,103 posts
  • Location:Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania USA
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 19 March 2006 - 05:48 pm

Even I can follow it and I am seriously 'mechanically-challenged'

ADMIN: Do we have a 'HOW TO' section?
This would be a good post to start one with.

Splendid post Chris.
Posted Image

Always tell the truth, it will gratify some of the people and astonish the rest. (Mark Twain)
£

Stebel Nautilus air-horn, Corbin seat, MRA Touring screen, single Delkevic silencer.
"I see by your outfit that you are a spaceman"(MkI (3VD) TDM Review)
Hints for using Carpe-TDM. (photo's, links, etc).

#18 dandywarhol

dandywarhol

    Carpe Citizen

  • Supporting Member(thanks)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,324 posts
  • Location:Edinburgh, Scotland
  • TDM model: 2003

Posted 20 March 2006 - 02:18 am

Great post Chris...........your enjun will last forever smile.gif

1967 Yamaha TD1C 250, 2014 Kawasaki W800, 2011 Aprilia Tuono 1000 V4, 2020 Yamaha XSR900

"At the cutting edge of technophobia" Scotland_180-animated-flag-gifs.gif mccoy.gif
 


#19 Walt_M.

Walt_M.

    seems to like Carpe

  • Members
  • 41 posts
  • Location:Panacea, Florida, USA
  • TDM model: 1992

Posted 20 March 2006 - 11:42 am

That was a lot of work but I can't help thinking you should have replaced the pistons. Were they within specified clearance with the new barrel hone job? If they were, you'll probably be ok. If not, it'll be smoking again soon.

#20 dapleb

dapleb

    Monkey Boy

  • Root Admin(A)
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,279 posts
  • Location:The home of morris dancin
  • TDM model: 1990

Posted 20 March 2006 - 11:46 am

The few high mileage TDM enjuns I've delved into have had very little/no ovalling of the bores, rings within spec and piston/ring clearance within spec....I think Chris found the same?

Cheers
dapleb
"Whats up", "Piston Broke", "Yeah me too...hic"

If you want to mark your location on the Carpe map: http://www.carpe-tdm...opic.php?t=5117

Doin valve clearances? Use dappers valve shim exchange program and the job will be carroty - Free (other than you postin me yer shims) for sporting members.

Active member of TPLQHCSRSFC and TSRMCMAS (even though a year off) and avid fan of PM not sent.


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users